PC_02-18-76_Meeting_MinutesMINUTES OF THE MEETING
OF THE
FREDERICK COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION
0 February 18, 1976
PRESENT: Frank Brumback, Vice Chairman; Thomas B. Rosenberger; Elmer Venskoske
C. Langdon Gordon, Chairman; James Golladay, Jr.; Manuel DeHaven
ABSENT: Keith Williams
CALL TO ORDER
The Chairman called the Meeting to Order and proceeded to the First Order of
Business:
"MEETING MINUTES of January 7 & 21, 1976 SUBMITTED"
Action - Approved with Corrections
Upon motion made by Elmer Venskoske, seconded by James Golladay, Jr. and approved
by the following vote: DeHaven; Golladay, Jr.; Venskoske; Rosenberger; Brumback -- YES;
BE IT RESOLVED, That the PI Commission for the County of Frederick, Virginia
does hereby dispense with the Reading of the Minutes of the of January 7 and
21, 1976.
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, That the Planning Commission for the County of Frederick,
Virginia does hereby approve the Minutes of the Meetings of January 7 and 21, 1976
as written with the following corrections:
1) 07,.p.,10, para. 10 ... add the letter "t" ... "..they want to locate.."
2) 21, p. .3, para. 6 ... add the word "Jr." ... "..Mr. E. E. Bayliss, Jr. .."
3) 21, p. 3, para. 9 ... delete the words "..(approximately in 1976).."
ARTICLE OF INTEREST - Urban Land Jan 76 (pp 3 -4)
Discussed Minimum Lot Size Requirements
Mr. Berg read to the Commission an excerpt:
"..... the thra acre lot minimum, the product of compromise operating on the five -acre
minimum desired by exclusionary- minded suburbs, is the worse possible pattern for land
development. It neither preserves nature, which is one objective, nor does it economi-
cally house people, which is another. It is the one pattern guaranteed to destroy the _
largest area of open countryside to house the smallest number of people.
I think we need an entirely new attitude toward peripheral land development. We
should realize that the days of the well and the privy are over; that you cannot
develop housing, except on farms and really large lots, without the whole galaxy of
services -- sewer, water, electricity, roads, transportation. We can no longer afford
to allow developers to put up houses at miscellaneous locations and, after the ground
• has become saturated with sewage from individual septic tanks, force the costly exten�
sion of interceptor sewers at public expense, wasting money, energy, and resources.
There should be a national policy that no housing, including mobile homes, should be
placed on the land unless sewer and water facilities are already in place,....."
(Urban Land Jan 76 Commentary p. 4)
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A discussion followed that included the forementioned article in relation to
land use planning application and the Commission's attitudes toward peripheral land
0 development.
CTTR PT ATTQ
DONALD E. GARBER - Fast Food Restaurant - Application No. 23 - located on a lot
fronting Route 522 South and backing onto old Route 522 (across Route 522 from
Lowe's ... Drainage problem.
Action - Recommended Approval
Mr. Berg stated that the proposed structure meets all zoning requirements, and
Health and Highway Departments' approval, with the possible exception of a drainage
problem. He said that Lots 1, 2 and 3 have existing drainage easements.
He stated that, since its construction, Lowe's drainage has flowed to new Route
522 for discharge onto Lot 3. He also stated that he had asked the Highway Department
to pay particular attention to the drainage problem that had resulted for Dr. Jerry L.
Grimes' property. He further stated that the State Department of Highways and Trans-
portation officials had met with Mr. Garber at the site and had followed up with a
•
letter from Mr.
John W. Chiles, Jr. by Mr.
R. C. King (Hydrology Section, dated .,
2/12/76) to Mr.
Garber. He said that the
recommendation had been that the proposed
DI -1 drop inlet be replaced by a standard manhole to prevent any drainage from entering
into the development's culvert and that erosion - control stone be placed at the discharge
end of the proposed culvert extension. He further summarized the letter by saying that
a curb is to be constructed along the North edge of the paved area to direct the runoff
to a drop inlet on the Northwest corner and if the entrance to Garber Road is to be
eliminated, a paved flume may be used in lieu of the drop inlet and culvert.
Mr. Berg continued from the forementioned letter:
"This site plan is being approved by this Department with the understanding that no
drainage from this proposed development is allowed to enter the drainage easement or the
property to the north. All drainage is to be directed to Garber Road.
Should additional development be planned in this area which would increase the run
off it will be the responsibility of the Developer to make satisfactory arrangements
with the effected property owners and this Department."
Mr. Berg stated that the staff is of the opinion that it is improper:to route
water to an incomplete drainage easement because it would only delay, not solve the
problem I and that the drainage easement should be updated or all water routed to old
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(PC 02/18/76) P. 3
Route 522 (Garber Road).
Mr. R. C. King (State Department of Highways and Transportation) appeared before
•
the Commission and stated that the first time they reviewed the site plan they were
under the impression that the Garber family still owned all the surrounding property
and had thus recommended continuing the easement to Dr. Grimes' property, then to old
Route 522 or to channel this water directly to old Route 522. He further stated that
the Hydrology Section of the said Department (Staunton, Virginia) re- submitted a
ruling that Mr. Garber's entrance permit could not be denied, nor further drainage
easement expected, as long as Mr. Garber would not contribute any additional water to
the easement, even though it would not be an ideal situation. He also stated that it
would be desirable to continue the easement further, or relocate it. He said that
there are no guarantees and each developer would be responsible for his individual
drainage] which could be resolved.
Mr. King continued that there is adequate room to enlarge the ditch on the East
is
side of old Route (to accommodate any runoff from the development). He said that
eventually the drainage would have to be cared for either by extending the easement
across Garber and Grimes property or, at some point, diversion to old Route 522 via
proper flume or drop inlet. He stated that, if additional water runs off to Dr.
Grimes' property, Dr. Grimes would have to take erosion control measures because he is
pretty well eroded now from this and another area's drainage.
The Chairman stated that it would be exemplary if the drainage problem could be
reviewed for the whole area at this time and asked Mr.'King if the entire problem
could be solved by re- directing the drainage to Garber Road (old Route 522) for the
total tract.
Mr. King stated that when Lots 4 and 5 (along new.:Route 522) are developed, there
•
will be additional impervious area to be drained and it would not be feasible to direct
the drainage back to the culvert, rather would probably have to go across Dr. Grimes'
property. He also stated that the whole area drains toward Route 81.
Discussion followed -- surrounding property ownership cited by Mr. Berg; present
B -2 zoning (since 1967); piecemeal solution versus area -wide drainage planning that
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(PC 02/18/76) P. 4
would involve fewer families (all being closely related to each other.), and pinpointing
responsibility.
• Mr. Frank Brumback made the following motion that was seconded by Mr. James
Golladay Jr.:
Return to Mr. Donald E. Garber his Site Plan Application No. 23 for the
proposed Garber's Restaurant located on Lot No. 3 of Garber Subdivision,
Shawnee Magisterial District, for consideration by all the lot owners
involved (in that vicinity), if legally possible, until a practical and
workable solution to the drainage problem could be worked out to avoid
their becoming 'locked -in' with no relief until considerable money is
expended for the development of these surrounding lots, at which time
Mr. Garber may re- submit said Site Plan application.
Opposition
Mr. James Crewalt appeared before the Commission and stated that he rents property
from Mrs. Norma Richard across the street from the proposal. He cited reasons of the
aesthetic value of residential community being disturbed by traffic, odor, etc.
Opposition
Mrs. Norma Richard appeared before the Commission and stated that she had built
• her home in 1956 (located across the corner from the proposal) and the rental house in
1958. She stated that she had not known of the rezoning of 1967 and cited her opposi-
tion to the disturbance and visible restaurant litter.
Rebuttal
Mr. Garber stated that he had built his home in that area in the 1950's. He
stated that it is anticipated to enclose with shrubbery the side fronting Garber Road.
He further stated that, since the project will cost $150,000; a mess wouldn't be
tolerated. He said that two (2) entrances are planned on new Route 522 with none
on old Route 522.
Mr. Thomas Rosenberger made the following motion that was seconded by Manuel
DeHaven to amend Mr. Brumback motion
Recommend to the Board of Supervisors, approval of Mr. Donald E. Garber's
Site Plan Application No. 23 for the proposed Garber's Restaurant located
on Lot No. 3 of Garber Subdivision, Shawnee Magisterial District, on the
® recommendation of Mr. R. C. King (State Department of Highways & Transporta-
tion) that the drainage problem situation will be taken care of on Garber
Road.
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(PC 02/18/76) P. 5
Opposition
Dr. Jerry L. Grimes appeared before the Commission and stated that it has the
• responsibility of setting a precedent now for development of that area. He stated
that Farm. Credit has indicated that they might agree to help solve the drainage
problem. He said that the easement stops with the,property that borders the road and
all the water eventually drains through his property.
Mr. Rosenberger amendment to Mr. Brumback motion was approved by unanimous
vote -- Mr. Brumback motion, as amended was defeated by unanimous vote; therefore,
the entire motion was defeated
Dr. Grimes stated that he felt Mr. Garber's proposal would not aggravate the
problem much more; that Mr. Garber would be responsible for any additional drainage.
Upon motion made by Thomas B. Rosenberger, seconded by Manuel DeHaven and approved
by the following vote DeHaven; Golladay, Jr.; Venskoske; Rosenberger; Brumback - YES,:
BE IT RESOLVED, That the Planning Commission for the County of Frederick, Virginia
does hereby recommend approval to the Board of Supervisors, of Donald E. Garber Site
'Plan Application No. 23 for Garber's Restaurant located on Lot No. 3 of Garber Subdivi-
sion, Shawnee Magisterial District, based upon Mr. R. C. King's (State Department of
Highways and Transportation) statement that the proposal's drainage problem will be
corrected with no future problems to effect residents on the West side of Garber Road
(old Route 522).
SUBDIVISION PLANS informally presented
by Mr. J. P. Darlington prior to application.
Commission's Consensus - not feasible
Mr. J. P. Darlington appeared before the Commission and presented, informally, a
request for their consensus of feasibility of 131 lots of 40,000 square feet
each located Routes 669 and 670 (with 30 -acre par k area donated). He stated that the
Health Department feels there should be two (2) approved drainfield sites, as well as
one (1) well site. He said that he had asked - before proceeding with the pre- application
expense. He stated that Dr. Hatfield (Frederick- Winchester Health Department) had told
him in a letter that a soil scientist would be required to evaluate each lot as it is
developed and this would constitute for him (Mr. Darlington) a complete survey equal
is to that of a final plat for each lot, plus the expense of hiring the soil scientist.
Discussion followed including: strip development (Darlington objects to it) and
drainage easements.
PC 02/18/76) P. 6
Mr. Darlington stated that it was his intention to develop the land -- it is just
the "choice ".
The Planning Commission's unanimous consensus was unfavorable. (Brumback not in
favor without central water and sewer -- Rosenberger, Venskoske, DeHaven were totally
against it.)
PINE SUBDIVISION (Staff Presentation)
Route 11 North at Route 839
Action.- Recommended Conditional
Mr. Berg stated that Mr. Pine proposes purchasing Lot A that has an existing septic
tank and well, and Shell service station. He also stated that land along Route 11 is
filled; therefore, Lot B would be unsuitable for a septic system because it would not
pass health requirements -- thus restricting it to use with central water and sewer only.
Upon motion made by Thomas B. Rosenberger, seconded by Elmer Venskoske and
approved by the following vote: DeHaven; Golladay, Jr.; Venskoske;
Rosenberger; Brumback -- YES:
• BE IT RESOLVED, That the Planning Commission for the County of Frederick, Virginia
does hereby recommend approval to the Board of Supervisors Pine Subdivision lcoated
on Route 11 North at Route 839, Stonewall Magisterial District; noting that to the best
of its knowledge Lot B has no existing septic system, cannot have one, and none is
planned.
STONEBROOK FARMS 8 6 (15 lots) SUBDIVISION
Action - Recommended Approval
Mr. Berg stated that the subdivision is a continuance of existing sections into
Section 6 to plat fifteen (15) lots of 40,000 to 60,000 square feet which have been
approved by the Health and Highway Departments and for which the staff recommends
$111 Recreation Impact Fee per lot. He said that the proposal is generally rolling
land; that Lot 105 has a very unconventional boundary line because of difficulty of
I
obtaining a drainage easement on Lot 106 (a house would have to set back 75'). He
stated that the balance of fourteen (14) lots would have a setback of thirty -five
feet (35').
• Upon motion made by Thomas B. Rosenberger, seconded by James Golladay, Jr. and
approved by the following voted DeHaven; Golladay, Jr.; Venskoske;
Rosenberger; Brumback -- YES;
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(PC 02/18/76) P. 7
BE IT RESOLVED, That the Planning Commission for the County of Frederick, Virginia
does hereby recommend approval to the Board of Supervisors, of Stonebrook Farms,.:Section
6 (15 lots) Subdivision, Back Creek Magisterial District, with Recreation Impact Fee
• of $111 per lot.
HERITAGE HILLS ® 1A (7 lots)
Bounded by S 1 and Abrams Creek
Action - Recommended Approval
Mr. Berg stated that the proposal is to extend Section One with seven (7) lots;
the Highway Department has approved the short piece of road and cul -de -sac; the staff
recommends a Recreation Impact Fee of $111 per lot; and Central water and sewer to be
provided by the developer.
Upon motion made by Manuel DeHaven, seconded by Frank Brumback and approved by the
following vote: DeHaven; Golladay, Jr.; Venskoske; Rosenberger; Brumback -- YES,j;
BE IT RESOLVED,. That the Planning Commission for the County of Frederick, Virginia
does hereby recommend approval to the Board of Supervisors of Heritage Hills, Section
1A (7 lots), bounded by Section 1 and Abrams Creek, Shawnee Magisterial District, with
Recreation Impact Fee of $111 per lot.
MOLDEN REAL ESTATE CORPORATION (2 Lots) SUBDIVISION
• Fronting Woodstock Lane (1 improved with house)
Action - Recommended Approval
Mr. Berg stated that it is proposed to subdivide one (1) lot of 40,000 square
feet located at the Green Acres entrance and has an existing white frame house into
two.(2) lots for the purpose of providing a building lot. He also stated that Win-
cheater central water and sewer is available; the Highway Department has approved; it
meets R -2 zoning requirements; and there is room between the right -of -way and setback
line to build a house.
Upon motion made by Elmer Venskoske, seconded by Manuel DeHaven and approved by
the following vote; DeHaven; Golladay, Jr.; Venskoske; Rosenberger; Brumback -- YES;
BE IT RESOLVED, That the Planning Commission for the County of Frederick, Virginia
does hereby recommend approval to the Board of Supervisors of Molden Real Estate
Corporation (Z, lots) Subdivision fronting Woodstock Lane, Stonewall Magisterial District,
with Recreation Impact Fee of $111 for one (1) vacant lot only.
Attorney for the Commonwealth's Opinion --
• Lot Acreage (3 v 5) Requirement is Discretionary
Presented by Secretary
Mr. Ronald Berg stated that the Attorney for the Commonwealth, Mr. Lawrence R.
Ambrogi, Esq. had opined that a county does have the right to set lot size requirements.
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(PC 02/18/76) P. 8
Mobile Home Community, Art. XXV, Dist. MH -1
Secretary presented and discussed draft
Action - Tabled 30 days per the Chairman's directive
Mr. Berg outlined and reiterated the proposal's history for the Commission, noting
that it would be subject to the Building Inspector's jurisdiction. He stated that Mr.
Clark is presently compiling a map designating every operational park that has a Condi-
tional Use Permit. He said that this district would include ordinance and maps (which
are not yet completed).
Upon Mr. Rosenberger's suggestion of tabling until April's first meeting (04/07/76)
to allow time for information to be digested, Mr. Berg stated that he felt certain
advertising preparations could be made by that time.
The Chairman directed the Secretary (Mr. Berg) to place this item on the Agenda
for the work session of the second March meeting ( 03/17/76 ).
Route 681 (Highway Dept. Proj. 0681 - 034- 148,C501)
Status Discussed
Mr. Berg stated that the Department of Highways and Transportation had not yet
forwarded the requested information and that Mr. Venskoske hadn't yet had an oppor
°'tunity to discuss the proposal with Mr. R. C. King.
ADJOURNMENT
Upon motion made by Thomas B. Rosenberger, seconded by Elmer Venskoske and
approved unanimously,
BE IT RESOLVED, That the Planning Commission for the County of Frederick, Virginia
does hereby adjourn.
THERE BEING "NOTHING FURTHER TO COME BEFORE THE COMMISSION, THE MEETING WAS
ADJOURNED.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
I F Ronald Berg, Secretary
• (AmAc
C. Langdo Gordon, Chairman
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