December 1, 2003 Work Session
248
A Worksession ofthe Frederick County Board of Supervisors and members ofthe Frederick
County Fire and Rescue Association was held on December 1, 2003, at 5:00 P.M., in the Board of
Supervisors' Meeting Room, County Administration Building, 107 North Kent Street, Winchester,
Virginia.
PRESENT
Chairman Richard C. Shickle; Vice Chairman W. Harrington Smith, II.; Robert M. Sager;
Margaret B. Douglas; Sidney A. Reyes; Gina A. Forrester; and Lynda I. Tyler. (Supervisors' Tyler
and Reyes were not present at the start of the worksession.
CALL TO ORDER
Chairman Shickle called the meeting to order.
Administrator Riley advised this worksession had been called as a result of a request from
the Fire and Rescue Department for a $780,494 supplemental appropriation. The Board held a
public hearing on this issue on October 22,2003. Prior to this date Fire and Rescue brought several
requests forward, all dealing with Personnel. Those issues were discussed at the County Personnel
Committee and subsequently referred to the County Finance Committee with a recommendation to
the Board that a public hearing be held on the supplemental appropriation. At the meeting on
October 22, the Board authorized positions for Greenwood and Clearbrook and held the rest ofthe
funding request in abeyance until the Board had an opportunity to interact with the Fire and Rescue
Association. At the November Fire and Rescue Association it was decided that a worksession would
be held with the Chiefs and Presidents of each company. He advised that when the Board of
Supervisors meet and there are more than two members, it is considered a public meeting. The press
is notified and they are present at the meeting. It is not an option as to whether Board Members can
meet privately with the Association or the Chiefs and Presidents. This is an open meeting and the
directive will be to try and establish dialogue with the Presidents and Chiefs of the respective
companies. The Board hopes to be able to get some insight into the concerns with reference to the
staffing request. There will be no action taken at this worksession. The action item will be placed
back on the Board's agenda for the December 10, Board Meeting.
ASSOCIATION PRESIDENT WALT CUNNINGHAM INTRODUCED THE CHIEFS
AND PRESIDENTS OF THE ASSOCIATION ADVISING NO ONE WAS PRESENT
FROM STEPHENS CITY AT THIS TIME
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Director DuBrueler advised those present of what had transpired since he made his original
request to the County Personnel Committee for the additional personnel. He advised that the
department has looked at the immediate needs ofthe department as well as some future needs to be
sure they are providing adequate service throughout the County on a 24/7 schedule. He further
advised this included the support that comes from his office. At this time he described the duties of
his office staff and what he felt their immediate needs were. He further advised of the five positions
that were approved at an earlier by the Board with four ofthese assigned to Clearbrook and the other
to Greenwood.
Chairman Shickle asked Director DuBrueler to further explain "the charge ofthe Board for
him to work with the Chiefs to rcduce ovcrtime and bring back to the Board those solutions." He
asked if that meeting did take place.
Director DuBrueler advised several meetings did take place in order to try and work out the
overtime. However, there was no solution to this situation. He advised there is not sufficient
staffing in order for overtime to be reduced or eliminated.
Chairman Shickle asked Director DuBrueler as to the timing of this request.
Director DuBrueler replied they see this as a dire need, given the time involved in hiring the
necessary staff that would fill the positions would be six months plus.
President Cunningham introduced Chief Locke and President Luttrell from Stephens City
Fire Company at this time.
Chairman Shickle advised that it would appear to him, as a novice in the Fire and Rescue
arena, that over time Frederick County will have to augment the volunteer force with paid
professionals, as has been the practice over the past several years. He is currently looki ng for advice
from those who know more about it as to how many, when, and what kind, as these are what he
needs answers to. He feels in talking with a majority ofthose present they to agree that Frederick
County will have to add more career staff. He asked if there was a volunteer that would like to
address the issue, of this request, at this time. Is it ready, is it timely, has it been given adequate
thinking time, any ofthe topics that Chiefs and Presidents could answer for the Board?
President Walt Cunningham read from a prepared statement expressing his thoughts on the
volunteer firemen of Frederick County, and what has transpired with them over the years. Hc feels
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the increase in population within Frederick County has had a large impact on demand for services
within the county fire companies.
Chief Greg Locke, of Stephens City, advised their biggest concern has been that they have
not seen the proposal that was presented to the Board. He referred to the fact that the original 33
positions that were requested and later reduced to 13 was not something his company knew anything
about. This is the largest concern that they have, not knowing about what is going on.
Don Jackson, Chief of Gainesboro, advised that he feels we need to grow, we need more
career help. He agreed with what President Cunningham said earlier about how upsetting it is to
read these things in the local paper, it is a big problem and a big concern of many. He further
advised of the not knowing about what is going on is a very big concern. He feels it boils down to
trust.
Director DuBrueler advised there are a lot of rumors that have been circulating concerning
this issue.
Hans Nydam, President Reynolds Store Volunteer Company, stated that his constituents are
looking at paid staff and what is happening now, and we are asking the same taxpayers to put
additional funding into the inefficiencies they are currently seeing.
Director DuBrueler advised these inefficiencies are due to the lack of proper supervision.
President Nydam responded that at one time we must have had something going good. That
is their position. They do not want to put more money into something that does not seem to be
working.
Chairman Shickle asked about the criteria that is used for promotions. Are the volunteer
Chiefs and Presidents involved in anyway?
Director DuBrueler advised it is based on the Career Development Program that was put into
service in October 1998.
Chairman Shickle advised that does not give you a feed back on performance.
Director DuBrueler stated that part of the criteria for evaluations in the Career Development
Program provides a performance evaluation that a person must average four points out of a possible
five in an evaluation process, for two years straight.
Chairman Shickle asked if a component ofthat also comes from the fire station in which they
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are stationed.
Director DuBrueler advised input is received from the Chief or whoever is designated.
President Nydam advised they were told their Chief would be part ofthe evaluation process;
however, we understand now that he is not.
Director DuBrueler advised their input is part ofthe evaluation, but their Superior is required
to do the evaluation, as stated in the County Personnel Policies.
Chief Greg Locke advised that he can understand that; however, the supervisor seeing them
more on a day to day basis is the volunteer officer. He has been told this officers input maybe
considered and it may not. He feels this is the best guidance for their performance. He is concerned
how much weight is actually placed on this.
Chief Don Jackson asked if everything he writes on an employee evaluation becomes part
of his evaluation?
Director DuBrueler advised it becomes part of his personnel file.
Chief David Plunkett of Round Hill Company addressed the promotions that are being
proposed from within the Director's Office. He specifically addresses the six additional field
supervisors that are being requested by Director DuBrueler.
Director DuBrueler advised the current existing positions were being elevated as they have
been in these positions for five years without the chance of promotion and their job duties had more
than quadrupled. He feels this is a way to compensate them. He further advised there are only four
field officers, one for each shift, and a relief supervisor, a total of six including the two training
officers. He further explained what the additional staffs responsibilities would be. He further
advised someone would be working at all times. There is supposed to be a supervisor for every four
positions and with this additional staffing there would be one for every six staff.
Chief Don Jackson addressed the current staffing situation and what is being proposed. He
advised what was approved at the Association level. It was approved as Administrative in order for
them to get a scheduled structure raise in salary as their career development improved.
Director DuBrueler disagreed with Chief Jackson about some having supervisory ability
while others do not. He referred to an incident during the past few days and not one volunteer was
present, they were all career staff and that was minimum.
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Deputy Chief Miller of Reynolds Store Volunteer Company questioned the number of new
vehicles that were being requested.
Director DuBrueler explained on page 19 and 20 the original request for 33 personnel. Page
21 is the downsized request for the fourteen personnel to be done immediately.
Deputy Chief Miller of Reynolds Store asked about the population increase within the
County since 1990.
Chairman Shickle explained the statement was made that there has been a 90% increase in
calls since 1990 and he asked what the population increase had been during this time.
Administrator Riley advised the population went from approximately 43,000 in 1990 to
provisional population of approximately 59,000, round numbers.
Larry Oliver advised in 1990 the figure was 45,723, and in July 2003 it was 63,000.
Director DuBrueler advised approximately 50%.
Deputy Chief Miller asked how much has the Frederick County Fire and Rescue Career
Department grown since 1990? In 1990 you had one Fire Marshal, I Director, and six staff. He
feels it is fair to say that this department has grown 150%.
Director DuBrueler stated probably 200% or more, but he does not think you can equate
apples to oranges when you are talking about this as there are other factors that need to be included.
Deputy Chief Miller asked Director DuBrueler ifhe did not think 200% was sufficient for
now?
Director DuBrueler advised, based on the calls that are run every day and knowing the staff
that is available, he feels this dictates whether we have the personnel available to serve the public.
Chairman Shickle advised he is hearing most ofthe comments on the section "Promotions,"
with the section "Re-Classification" being next, with the least amount of discussion being "New
Hires." Is he hearing correctly?
Chief Eddie Keeler, Greenwood Chief asked for clarification on what the new Lieutenants
would be doing as well as the ones that are being promoted to Captain. He also asked what the
Operations Director would be doing?
Director DuBrueler explained in detail the responsibility of each position.
Chief Keeler advised that his feelings are, that the system that is currently in place is broken.
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(Supervisor Tyler left the worksession at this time and returned within the hour.)
Administrator Riley asked Chief Keeler ifhe was saying that the volunteers that are present
during the evening hours can supervise in lieu of having someone else there. He stated that it is very
hard for a Supervisor to do an evaluation of a staff member when they are not present during their
shift on a daily basis.
Chief Plunkett of Round Hill addressed the 56-hour work week asking if the additional
personnel would reduce some ofthese hours. He feels there are other ways for this to work in order
to cut down on the overtime that has been a big eon cern for quite some time.
Tonya Holliday, Treasurer of Gore Fire Company, asked why the new titles were necessary?
Director DuBrueler advised it will allow them- the more responsibility they have the more
salary.
Tonya Holliday asked, but they have reeeived salary increases?
Director DuBrueler explained the only raises they have received is the normal cost ofliving
adjustments that every County Employee has received. He stated that other County Employees
within the County system that has taken on additional responsibility have received an increase in
salary to compensate for that additional responsibility.
Tonya Holliday asked if that could not be accomplished by just an increase in salary not
necessarily by a new title.
Director DuBrueler explained due to how the system works, if you are at the top of your
level, you go to your next position in order to be compensated for extra work.
Chairman Shickle asked about Fire Company 12 and 15. Why is it that they seem to end up
with less staff?
Director DuBrueler attempted to explain how this works with the shifting of different
employees.
Discussion followed with President Nydam and Deputy Chief Larry Oliver as to how the
training program was prioritized.
There was further discussion with Chief J aekson about the Academy and what has transpired
with those who attended classes there over the last two years.
Jason Burns with the Frederick County Career Association advised of a recent situation in
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Brookneill Subdivision with a fire and the fact if more personnel had been there he feels the situation
would have turned out differently. He feels there is a severe lack of career personnel.
Chairman Shickle asked Director DuBrueler about the overtime that has been on going for
some time, and with his additional staffing can we still expect to see $50,000 and over, in overtime,
even with this staffing?
Director DuBrueler advised if we don't cover our relief positions and we receive additional
staffing, yes the overtime is going to go up.
Chief Keeler addressed the medics' situation.
Dr. Jack Potter, Emergency Room Doctor, Winchester Medical Center, expressed his opinion
on what Larry Oliver had said earlier concerning the importance of training and the fact staffhas not
been available, as much as they would like to be, due to their scheduling and lack of staff.
Chief Don Jackson expressed his views on the great job that is being done by the County
Volunteers. He feels the County is receiving an incredible "Bang for their Buck."
Dave Whitacre, Chief, Millwood Station, advised he had no problems with the promotions.
He does feel there is a retention problem and that our system is not very consistent.
Tonya Holliday asked ifthere is any directive in place? Is there a recruitment plan in place
for volunteers? Are surrounding areas eausing any of our problems?
Director DuBrueler responded.
Dr. Bethany Cummings, Lord Fairfax EMS Regional Medical Director, spoke to the way
things was back 20 years ago and she feels the people now are not necessarily motivated the way we
were back then. The culture is obviously different which is what this meeting is about. She feels
someone, an impartial person, needs to be available for when an individual is considering leaving
they would be able to talk to in order to explain why certain things are happening. She is not
agreeing or disagreeing with the system.
Tonya Holliday advised if we constantly look at this as hire more people, hire more people,
and don't at sometime address the Volunteer System, which ultimately is and was the core of this
system, we need to look at that as well. We need to look at how to get more volunteers and also how
to motivate them and get them into the system.
Chairman Shickle advised he had some questions that he would like to know the consensus
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of those present from the fire companies.
I. Does the County have too much overtime at this time with career staff?
2. Does the County need to add additional career personnel at this time?
3. Is this request ready to be voted on by the Board at this time?
He suggested that a roll call be done of the companies unless someone had a better idea.
Ouestion #1 - Is there Currentlv too much Overtime
Company 11-
Company 12-
Company13-
Company 14-
Company 15-
Company 16-
Company 17-
Company 18-
Company 19-
Company 20-
Company 21-
No
Yes
Yes
No
No
No - (call volume needs to be addressed)
No - (needs to be different)
Yes - (with objections)
No
No
Yes
The majority of the responses were not a clear yes or no as they felt there were certain areas
that needed additional comments and just a response of yes or no was not adequate.
Question #2 - Does the County Need to Add Additional Career Personnel at this Time
Company 11-
Company 12-
Company 13-
Company 14-
Company 15-
Company 16-
Company 17-
Company 18-
Company 19-
Company 20-
Company 21-
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
No - not for the hiring of assistance or promotions- feels five positions
hired last month are sufficient.
Yes
Question #3 - Is this packa~e ready to be voted on by the Board of Supervisors at this
time
Company 11-
Company 12-
Company 13-
Company 14-
Company 15-
Company 16-
Company 17-
Company 18-
Company 19-
Company 20-
Company 21-
No - with explanations
Yes
Yes
No
No
No
No
Yes
No
No
Yes
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The question of mutual aid was addressed and the overall consensus was that it does need
to be addressed.
Supervisor Forrester asked the membership if they felt confident that their Company could
respond to all constituents 24/7.
Company 11-
Company 12-
Company 13-
Company 14-
Company 15-
Company 16-
Company 17-
Company 18-
Company 19-
Company 20-
Company 21-
Abstained
No
No
Not comfortable with question.
Yes
Uneasy with question - cannot answer
Cannot answer
No
Yes
Yes
No
Deputy Chief Miller with Reynold s Store advised 80% of their calls are EMS.
Chairman Shickle asked Board Members if they were prepared to vote on this issue at the
Board Meeting on December 10?
Supervisor Tyler stated that she felt this current situation is a huge liability, and she is ready
to vote.
Supervisor Douglas, yes.
Supervisor Smith advised that he was not comfortable with voting at this time as he has
concerns and he feels it should not be voted on by the Board until their January meeting.
Supervisors Reyes and Sager advised they were ready to vote.
Chairman Shickle thanked everyone for attending, he feels it has been very beneficial. He
asked ifthere were any additional comments.
Deputy Chief Miller advised that he feels the volunteers are getting lost in the system. He
further advised that the cooperation that is needed, is not there.
Chief Jackson stated that he felt the general consensus is that there are problems between the
volunteers and the career staff. He feels there is also a lack of trust and that there is definite need
for better communications this has been a problem for a long time, it boils down to trust this needs
to be overcome. Something needs to come of this, this needs closure. The coordination that is
needed with the Administration is not there. Various statcmcnts madc at this meeting, by the
membership, is proof of that.
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Chairman Shickle stated that he hopes the membership of the County Fire and Rescue
Association knows the Board of Supervisors treats this matter very seriously. The Board wants to
make the right decision for the citizens of Frederick County. It would be the desire ofthe Board for
a more harmonious opinion to exist and it is their hope that this will improve. He feels things can
be made better. The support ofthe Board is there. (TIME: 7:20 P.M.)
--
\~ ~S-0
Richard C. Shickle
Chairman, Board of Supervisors
J~'f(
Clerk, Board of Supervisors
,
,
Minutes Prepared By: a 7 ~ ,/ \[)o, , J..-eo <'I /
Carol T. Bayliss I
Deputy Clerk, Board of Supervisors
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